Episode Transcript
[00:00:07] Speaker A: So I invited a buddy of mine, AJ Patton, CEO of 548 Enterprise. This show. AJ, welcome.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Thank you, man. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Thanks for doing it. Thanks for doing it.
So I met AJ a few years ago. We were both trying to not be fat dads at the gym.
I got a lot of respect for the guys in there every day like you and asked me for a spot. I gave him an attaboy for putting some real weight up. And then we were bullshitting for a minute and he said, you know, I'm working towards 315 for 5. Was that it?
[00:00:46] Speaker B: I think something like that.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: And that stuck with me because, you know, a lot of people are in there, myself included some days just kind of going through the motions. And the fact that you were in there with a very specific goal.
I think now that I know what you do for a living, I didn't know at the time, but now I do. I think that was very on brand. So it was a cool way, cool way to meet you. Cool way to get to know you.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Well, I have to say one, thanks for having me. You have a lot more clothes on than you usually do. So it's good to see you fully dressed.
He's a short shorts guy. Everyone. Just so you know.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: Oh, gosh.
Yeah, we'll cut that.
Just kidding.
So 548 Enterprise is a holding company comprised of 548 Development, 548 Capital, 548 Energy and 548 Foundation.
So reading that makes me already feel like an underachiever. But AJ Is a modest guy. I'm going to rattle off a few of his accomplishments. He's cranes Chicago 40 under 40 Midwest Energy 40 under 40American Council of Renewable Energy Accelerate Member, Chicago Business Leadership Council Banking and Finance Co Chair, World Leaders Forum Board Member, Lowe's Community Partner, Chicago Invests Southwest Winner, Chicago Community Trust Grant Recipient.
Dude, where are you putting all the hardware? I know, I know. Anna's not letting you put it on the mantle.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: This is true. He knows my wife. He's one of the few people I know my wife because we have a. We both are in the industry, but very few people kind of get the connectivity between the two of us.
I'm so much like my grandfather. We were joking about this. I have no idea where the awards are. No idea. And so Anna has some of them in a basket in the attic.
I think somebody in my office has like two or three of them. And then I gave most of them. Honestly, not to be too corny Most of them I gave to my parents.
[00:02:46] Speaker A: That's cool. That's cool.
Shout out. Anna Barski, by the way.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: Local authority on 1031 exchanges.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Just my local.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: No, she was in. We didn't actually. We connected the dots because she came into Interra Realty's office to do a workshop and I don't even know how we connected things, but, you know, she's like. She's the go to person for exchanges in Chicago.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: She's a star.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: Together for years I've known her.
[00:03:14] Speaker B: Very grateful.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: We are starting with rapid fire. Questions only, answers, no explanations. All right.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: What'd you listen to on the way here?
[00:03:26] Speaker B: Raging Moderate podcast. Yeah, it's called Raging Moderate.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: I'm writing it down.
[00:03:32] Speaker B: It's Scott Galloway and he's with a woman from Fox News, and they are raging moderates. And I'm trying to diversify the content that I listen to. I listen to a lot of podcasts, and so the podcast I listened to today was called Raging Moderates.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: I like it. Favorite Chicago coffee shop.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: Sip n savor. Hyde Park, 53rd Street.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I like it.
Pizza place.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Depends on my mood.
I live a block away from Pequods.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: Yeah, that's not wrong. Early bird or night owl? I might know the answer.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Early bird.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: By a lot.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm an old man.
[00:04:20] Speaker A: I go dead at night when they're in the gym. I see. I didn't have to ask that one to you. Best under the radar Chicago restaurant.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Jog grill on 56. I know jog Grill used to be in Lincoln Park. It's now out south. When I host people that are first times in Chicago, I don't care what status they think they are. I take them to J Grill and they think Chicago's the best restaurant.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: Oh, dude, food's awesome.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: Jog Grill.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: What's one word your colleagues would use to describe you?
[00:04:48] Speaker B: Intentional.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: I like that. Not surprising. Based on the intro that I gave.
Favorite intersection in the city.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: Well, I have this dream. You said answers, no explanation.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: No, go ahead.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Peterson. You know the Whole Foods on Peterson on the north side? Peterson and Peterson.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: And like Cicero up there?
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Yes. That's got the Whole foods with the 50 units on top of it. Yeah, I'm obsessed with building that. One day I want to do that.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: I love that. I just love it.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: You love the connectivity between the retail and the apartments.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: I love the concept of apartments and grocery together. That needs to be a thing. I would love to do something.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: There are a lot of neighborhoods in Chicago that could benefit from that as well.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: Absolutely random. But every time I drive past our.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: Line, I think a lot of people in my business, I sell a lot of mixed use buildings and I think a lot of people sleep on what a commercial component can do to the resi component of it. So there's some developments that seem very intentional. And it's like the commercial can add like some cachet to the building. Like I live over Whole foods is a great example.
And then there's some where, you know, like, no offense to some, like, you know, there's a smoke shop because it's like the first tenant that came in and offered them a deal that they would accept or something that just doesn't mix with the, like, doesn't really like blend well with the apartment component. But I think mixed use real estate is like the fabric of an urban neighborhood.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: Love it.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: And so that's. Here we are like two real estate guys rambling about.
[00:06:37] Speaker B: No, I'm in.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Last one, plug. An up and coming Chicago real estate person that you feel like deserves some recognition.
Somebody you see hustling.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: I mean, there's a lot of people. I mean, I, I'm. We'll probably talk about this, but I try to meet with everybody.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:57] Speaker B: So I really like bonita a lot. I love what she's doing. She's a star now, though. She's not really up and coming, but I just love what she's doing on the luxury side.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Luxury. Single family.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: What's your last name?
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Harris.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: She's a star, man. Who, who, who's up and coming? Because now I wonder who. I don't want to be offensive because up and coming is a thing. I mean, like I say this like, for example, like somebody gave a shout out to Phil Beckham.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: Have you. If you follow the Green Line, 43, 43rd street and Green Line down Phil.
There's a project there called 4043 and green.
[00:07:37] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: And he's got three phases where he's doing mixed use, 10 story with essentially no parking right there at a green. At a great. At a train stop in New York. That's called every day in Chicago. That's rare.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: And so. And he's done it on 43rd street, which I think is even more impactful. And so now he's on phase three and about to do a hotel over there. And that was like his first real real estate development. He's. He's the next big thing.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: It's also like transformative for the neighborhood. You know, you see, you see a development like that maybe even. Especially one that goes in phases. And I feel like it proves.
It proves the. Call it a need or a want for that type of housing and that type of retail or that type of hospitality in the neighborhood, like, kind of gradually, because I'm sure that there are people who are skeptical about it at inception, and then when they see it executed, they're like, man, turned out cool.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Well, and I would argue no spot on. I would argue our other client, our invisible client, but that's always our client is the bank. And so when that project has success, you show them, hey, we built this the moment we even started to close to get all four walls enclosed. There was a wait list to get in the door. And I think that sends a great message to the bank about going into markets that they had not previously gone to to take those opportunities serious. And so I think that that was part of what I think is so great about what he'd done. No one had put a crane south of Roosevelt in some time. That's a hell of a thing he's accomplished.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
And to do it in a transit oriented way is cool, too.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: I think it's genius.
[00:09:21] Speaker A: Phil Beckham. Bonita Harris.
All right, so those weren't so rapid, but I loved your answers.
[00:09:28] Speaker B: Long winded. My bad.
[00:09:29] Speaker A: I plan on. I plan on starting most podcasts by acting the asking the guests about growing up. And when I was preparing for this, I learned something about you that I didn't know. And I wanted someone to kind of lead your answer with a quote that I read from your website.
In 1999, my mother got a $400 gas bill and we had a hole in the roof we couldn't afford to fix because my mother made $10 an hour. So our gas got shut off and I had to boil water to take a bath for over a year. That sticks with you. It becomes part of who you are. That's why it's my mission to lower family utility bills and clean energy technology. With clean energy technology. Excuse me.
It's an incredibly powerful experience and mission.
Tell me a little bit about growing up and lead us to maybe pause to how you got into the real estate business. Yeah.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Thank you. So, you know, that experience is frankly what kind of seeded the company. And so having that lived experience, I knew I didn't want anyone else to have it. And I was lucky enough during that time I was playing varsity sports, so I was getting a chance to shower at school at least, which kind of helped subsidize some of that time. But you Know, that's, that was my reality when I walked in the door at home. And so when I started one, I was, you know, great family, mother, grandparents were awesome. We talked about my grandparents off camera. But I had a great mom, great, great set of grandparents.
Regardless of our income level. I was wealthy in love and encouragement, which you realize in life now that you and I are both parents. You realize that there's some things money cannot buy and that's time, commitment, encouragement, people giving you, you know, those words of encouragement to make sure you stay on the right path. So I was very wealthy from that perspective. We just didn't have no money.
We just had no money. So fast forward, you know, when I wanted to start my own firm, I started it as an intern at Duke and then started as an analyst. Started as an intern at Duke, then went to be in the executive training program at hsbc, then left to go be an analyst at equities first, which is a Hong Kong based firm.
What I realized my heart was trying to change that lived experience for everyone else so that no one else had to have utility bills impact their quality of life. And so when I started 5:48, I named the companies 548 because that's the unit number in the projects that I grew up in. So I branded all the companies so that regardless how great things can be, we're anchored in that experience and that we're always serving people those opportunities and lived experiences.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: That's awesome, man. I mean. So take a step back though.
How did you, you know, you grew up in affordable housing and you were, you know, you made it to Indiana. Was that athletics or was it academics or like you made it to Indiana State and then, you know, you started your professional career with two, you know, in the real estate world, kind of household name, large companies. So there weren't, I'm making an assumption, but I think it's a safe one. Like there weren't a lot of people that were growing up where, how you did earning those opportunities and how'd you do it in addition to having the love and support of your family?
[00:12:46] Speaker B: Yeah, it was, it was a little odd, I'll tell you, because I will say I was blessed. There's a, there's a national program called Inroads that helps African Americans get internships with Fortune 500s. So I was lucky, luckily lucky enough to get in that program that helped me land Duke. I got into Indiana State. You know, it's funny, in my mind, I was an athlete. You know, unfortunately, there weren't Any coaches looking for five, eight, slow guys? So I kept checking the mail. You know, Bob Knight wasn't calling. So, you know, we went to Indiana State.
You know, they offered me a full ride for academics and all that, and so that's why that made sense.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: It was the hometown school. I'm from small town Indiana. It made sense. And so that's why we went that path. And then the Inroads program helped me get him to Duke, and I parlayed that in hsbc. And then, you know, it was just. Then things got weird. Market got weird. How that happens.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
Were you entrepreneurial as a kid?
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I was the king of the.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: I knew that before.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Well, I was, you know, necessity, you know, kind of builds these things. I would carry my lawnmower everywhere, and I was lucky enough that two doors down was the greenskeeper for the local golf course. So he had a garage that would sharpen your lawnmower. And he loved my work ethic, so he would do it for free all the time. Just come on, little fella. And he'd tighten up my. My lawnmower and he'd see me dragging it down the street, and I'm cutting everybody 10 bucks, man, you can. I'll make you. Like.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: That was like my growing up job. I just. I miss mowing the yard, too. I mean, I don't even have any grass in my house.
[00:14:30] Speaker B: I don't either.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Yeah, same. But like, you remember when you're a kid, you go out, you see the shaggy yard, you mow it for an hour, whatever it takes, you know, you see the lines, it smells a certain way. It's a very tangible work product, and you get paid right away, you know, and then you're like, all right, I did my work for the day. I miss that instant gratification and that, like, that tangibility.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: Now what do you have? Now this is interesting because I, you know, as he mentioned, we do kind of know each other. What do you have in your life that. That replaces that?
[00:15:07] Speaker A: You know, I think it's. It's my experience, my kids is the first thing I think of is like, you know, doing things with your hand, building things.
I think that that's the first thing that I. That gets close to replace. It's not the same. It's better in some ways and it's not the same in others. But I think teaching them a task and seeing them do it is kind of like the next version of it.
My wife recently, like, instilled a reward system in our house where we have, like, Monopoly money that we give them for doing particular types of chores if they do them proactively.
And it's been. It's been really cool to see my oldest son in particular, who's just about to turn eight, like, want to earn money. It. You know, it's. It. But it also.
You see him do these little things around the house, and I don't know, it just kind of like, reminds you when you were a kid, like, even though he's not earning money the way that I was, like, I like to see that he's got the ambition to kind of earn it. Yeah. How about you?
[00:16:14] Speaker B: You know, this is gonna sound funny.
We think similarly in the sense that, like, there is. Because our industries move slow, and you have to be obnoxiously patient, that I don't have a thing that's like, oh, A plus B equals C, and I see it within a couple hours. So now my thing is, like, I still clean the house. I do laundry, I do dishes, I pick up after my kids. And they think everyone's like, you still. I'm like, I need something in my life that I touch and it moves. Everything else is like, I'll see you in six months.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: Anna. Don't take them for granted.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: They won't clip this part.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: I. Yeah, I brought up her kids or came up, whatever, and I, you know, one thing that I think about myself, but I think maybe you even have a more.
Maybe it's a little bit more of a stark difference is like, how do you make sure that you instill the work ethic that you have in your kids, who are growing up a little bit more comfortably about some things.
And I'm not trying to make a comment about you had a wonderful upbringing in some ways, but you talked about some of the hardship that you guys had from a financial standpoint. So how do you make sure that your kids. Or how do you want to make sure that your kids have that hustle that you have?
[00:17:39] Speaker B: Yeah, it's complex. We live in Lincoln Park. My kids have a nann.
Well, I know this, but so it's, you know, it's. It's different.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: I think part of this is Daddy Runs four business.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Yeah. They're like, yeah, what's this about again?
I think part of it is, you know, my son. And, you know, my kids are much younger. My. My son just turned 5. My daughter's 1.
I try to take, you know. You know, to me, it's about gratitude and then just understanding everyone's place on the planet. Like, I'VE done really. The thing that has really built kind of the brand and what we've done is that I treat everybody the same, and mostly because I've seen everyone as an equal. We all have a role on the planet. God's using us for different missions. And so what I will try to do right now. My kids are too young. Is just understanding that, hey, if you're the future boss and it's your job to give back, that's why we started the foundation. I take him to different. He goes to every single nonprofit event. He's never missed an event, even when he was fussy. He goes to every single nonprofit event. Even if he doesn't know what the heck's going on. He's in every. He. He thinks that it's his nonprofit. He has no idea what nonprofit means, but. And that's going to be a part of kind of the mission.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: He does, though. I mean, he might not know literally, but he's seeing it, right?
[00:19:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And my hope is that he understands. I think the nice thing is he has taken to construction. And so in his mind. Right. And so I'm like, it's cool. And so he's like, man, I think the coolest guy. He thinks the coolest guy in our neighborhood is the guy that picks up trash.
[00:19:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: And I'm like, you're right. Because if he doesn't do it, the whole neighborhood runs out of sync. So you've got to appreciate a good day's work.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, we have the. Going back to school. They hold the board. What do you want to do? You know, let's drive a truck. It's pick up the guard, you know, and in a lot of ways, those are cool job, you know, really cool jobs. Really necessary. And then you, you know, the. A truck goes by. They're like, can you believe that truck? I'm like, you know, you take a second, you look at. You're like, that is a really cool truck. Yeah, I see what you mean.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: And I think one of the lessons out of COVID is we really had to question.
Well, we got the answer to the question of what is an essential job.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Everything.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: And so now we know, like, maybe we need to pay a little more respect to the guy bagging groceries.
[00:19:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: 100%, you know, so I think that's what I'm trying to instill in my kids while. And there's balance. It's going to be delicate. It's gonna be a balancing act. And it's ever growing. Yeah.
[00:20:08] Speaker A: Good for you, man. I wanna go to, you know, not the smoothest segue. I wanna go back to. You were talking about your experience at Duke Realty and Equities first. And you can tell in the way that you're hardwired that you always had this desire to start your own thing. And obviously, we talked a little bit about the mission of doing so.
Or maybe, like, the why, but how about the how? You know, like, you're leaving, comfortable job, presume that you were making a good living for your age, and then, you know, you're taking this leap.
What about it? Maybe did you underestimate about starting your own firm? What about it did you think was going to be harder? Maybe you overestimated it.
Tell me a little bit about the experience launching your own firm, because I gather that there's going to be other people. Hopefully somebody listens to this, but somebody listening to it might be in a position where they have this itch to do their own thing.
But taking that leap is a difficult thing to do.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it's ironic. I remember going home because I knew it was a milestone in my life. I actually went back to Southern Indiana and. And I gathered up my grandparents, parents, sisters, nieces, nephews. I put them all together and I said, I'm quitting my job.
And their faces. You thought someone died.
[00:21:34] Speaker A: Like, oh, no. A.J. thinks he's gonna be an athlete again.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Right?
Excuse me. So it was crazy. And so I remember my dad has a. We just lost him a year ago, and he just. He had a blind face, faith in me, just like, he doesn't understand it. You know, I was the first one in my family to go to college. He didn't understand the college thing, but he trusted that I knew what the heck I was doing. And when I took the. When I picked Indiana State, I picked Indiana State over Northwestern. I got into West Point Northwestern, and I picked Indiana State for a very specific reason. And all those things panned out. And so I got everything out of it. And so at every stage, they kind of. Even since I was, like, 14, they just kind of.
All right, we trust him now.
[00:22:20] Speaker A: He knew you had $100,000.
[00:22:20] Speaker B: And so when I came home and I said, I'm quitting. I'm quitting this good job. I was 26, 7, 8. I was making mid six figures at the time. It was probably as successful as anyone my family's ever seen. And they were looking at it like, maybe this is a fad, what's going on? And I'm like, No, I got this plan. I showed it to my grandpa, and he was like, okay, this could work. I think you got it. And then I hit the streets. I had to do some fundraising. And I think the thing that I took. Two things I took for granted.
One is when you're working as a part of an institution, I had success. I was 26 years old. I was 24 as an analyst. By the time I was 26, 27, I was head of U.S. investments. I was knocking out of the park when I left what I thought, you know, one man's wonder kid is another person's idiot. And the moment I stepped one foot outside that company, it was almost as if no one had even recognized any of the success I had before. And it was the most humbling thing.
And so, you know, no one had acknowledged. No one cared to think of that as my track record. And so now that was humbling. 2. I think the other thing is you don't realize when you go to. I don't know if you've ever done a fundraise before. Raising capital is the hardest thing to do in America. And it took me two years to raise a million dollars.
I was working for someone else's company. I had half a billion bucks. All I had to do was send an instant message, and they wired me a million bucks like I didn't care.
[00:24:00] Speaker A: In addition, you know, layer on the complexity of raising money in Chicago, too. And like you said, with experience, that didn't necessarily translate into a track record. Right. So how'd you do it?
[00:24:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, the honest answer is, you know, it took me two years. I went entirely broke. And, you know, this is. I don't go public with this story very often, but I'll give my gym buddy this the exclusive.
I was so broke that I was driving Uber from 5am to 10am and from 5pm to 10pm and running my company in the middle of the day.
And then I did that for about almost a year straight. Wow. So I had a sign in my car that said, I have a solar startup. Ask me questions. And I had a stack of business cards in my armrest. And I had my pitch deck saved on my phone so I could quick zap it to you whenever you're ready. A guy gets in my car, and he's like. And I met everybody that way. I met all the executives of all the major banks that way.
And a guy gets in my car, and he's like, you really got a business? I said, yeah. I said, this is real. I got A real track record. Like, I'm not just an Uber driver.
[00:25:16] Speaker A: I'm like a guy.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: And we did three coffees and 40 days later he wired me a million bucks.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: Really? Was his background in the energy space?
[00:25:25] Speaker B: No, he was leaving.
He was. He was a financial advisor leaving a big shop to start his own platform. And I was the going to be the fund manager for all the real assets. And so he gave me the money and let me cook.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: Unbelievable. I mean, what like, if you ever need a reminder for like continuing to like shoot your shot, you know, I mean, that's incredible. Yeah.
So yeah, 548 Enterprise.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Which is obviously there's four different kind of related but different verticals. So energy came first.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Capital, the money start. Everything starts with capital. So we raised the first couple million bucks in capital and then that's where the money sets. Development represents our real estate interest. So that's the development arm that executes on behalf of capital in real estate transactions, then energy.
So everything we do has a sustainability component to it. We put rooftop solar on everything. We do it for third parties, the majority of what we do. And so we put solar on top of commercial properties. That energy company does that exclusively. And then lastly is the foundation, which we could talk about separately, but so no, those are all Separate P&Ls. Search Capital's always been first. Yeah, you need money to do everything.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: So when I was reviewing the website, you know, when I kind of.
[00:26:50] Speaker B: My apologies.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: No, no. When I was just getting an understanding, you know, I knew you from a different way. You know, it doesn't matter what you do when you're working out next to somebody. It's not something I ever talk about, but I started to think about, you know, in a big market like Chicago, a lot of people say specialize in a niche, only do that. But you're doing four different business lines. Again, they're correlated, but you're doing them all effectively.
How do you manage doing these different things while maintaining a specialization and maintaining your focus as a leader of the business line?
[00:27:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's complex, but I think the reality is that they all kind of work together. So the investment stuff is separate because you're going to need your GP interest or you just need money in general to do everything. So the investment stuff's relatively easy, the real estate and the energy. I hired a separate president for that company for energy.
It has a separate project manager, separate business development person. It has its own thing.
Energy takes advantage of all the success that the development company has. It gets to build its track record on the 10 developments we have in the real estate side and then they go get new contracts with different municipalities and other developers, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: Yeah, okay, cool.
Is there anything that you would change about the way that you launch the business or that you kind of have them integrated now that you, you know, if you could rewind a few years or.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: I think they're structured right. I think if, you know, we did a seed round for the energy company, we'll do a series A end of next year. I think that's a company that will probably IPO at some point. I definitely believe that. Obviously we won't IPO energy company during the current climate, but we, you know, I think that, you know, I don't think I'd structure it much differently. I think we've, you know, we've scaled at kind of the right pace. I think interest rates coming down is only going to help, kind of help, you know, momentum on both sides.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: I think so, too.
So let's talk about the energy side. You know, I mean, because I'm going to be, I'm going to, in addition to showing my me being green as a podcast, I'm going to show you how little I know about energy and the questions. But tell us about just like a fallacy that you regularly debunk about alternative and solar energy, you know, what's something that our average real estate person in Chicago of some capacity doesn't know or misunderstands about your business?
[00:29:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I think part of it, in fairness, that I think people know, people that are well traveled know that if you go to the east coast or if you go to the west coast, solar is just ingrained in their culture. Right. And so they see it when you fly into lax, you fly into Phoenix, you fly into La Jolla or San Diego, every piece of the airport, every industrial complex is covered in solar. You fly into O'Hare, Midway, nothing. And so, and it's not for no other reason than no one's really focused on it. And so, you know, our state, the state of Illinois has the most progressive clean energy policy in the country. So it subsidizes solar so much that it's now going to be the leader in clean energy.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: So where's the disconnect just in that like, it's like a, not like cultural, but it's just like it's such a regional thing that people get lazy and.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: Never it's market cycles. So when the clean energy bills pass, the first thing that happens is the Big utility scale stuff that all happens downstate. We'll never see that stuff. That's all big farms. 100 acre farms. They get covered in solar panels and they'll service then. And then the next. The other piece is the single family residential market.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: That's happening in suburbs. I'm sure you've got those calls before.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: Then the last to come is commercial. And then the commercial owners get called and they get engaged.
[00:30:52] Speaker A: But the commercial, some of the commercial buildings are like the most ripe. Right. They have just bigger footprints of roof.
[00:30:57] Speaker B: I'm building. I'm building an entire business just around that. Yeah, it's just big boxes, big flat roofs. They're amp perfect TPO roofs already, you know.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: So what makes a. I mean, again, here I am knowing, you know, very like what makes a property most ripe for it or what applications are you finding this working? And then, you know, we're talking to real estate people, like talk about, like, talk about the dollars and cents.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: Absolutely, yeah.
[00:31:27] Speaker A: So this cost prohibitive to do, is it?
[00:31:29] Speaker B: No, it's. It's the beauty of Illinois. And I say this all the time because we talk to folks nationally. The moment you cross the state border any direction, it's a different story inside of Illinois. You know, if it's a. If it's a multifamily housing, for the most part, if it's commercial, residential or industrial, retail, we can install it free of charge. And the Discounts start at 20% to the local utility. This starts at 20. Now if it's multifamily and it's affordable, then I can throw in a kicker to get you to 50%. If it's Joe's calling, he's like, hey, bro, I own a 50,000 square foot industrial property off of Ogden. It's a new roof, it's 20% discount on utilities.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: Jeez. And so you're in addition to employing it in your developments and you're doing a lot of affordable development. Most, if not all. No.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: Yes.
A little over half. A little over half, yeah.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: And so you're doing it and then you're doing it third party as well.
[00:32:34] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:32:35] Speaker A: Okay, cool.
You'd mentioned this earlier and it's probably the part of what you do that you know, the little I know the least about, but I think is the most Arab. Like the Foundation 548 Foundation. So I saw on your website that Lowe's provided a $500,000 donation.
And I saw that, like, it's a massive organization. I think with generally, like, I don't know how Lowe's is, but generally a company like that has so much red tape and so many people involved in decision making that, like, just even getting somebody on the phone that's like a part of that decision making is difficult, let alone navigating it and then winning the donation.
How'd you do it? How'd you get in touch with them? How'd you win it?
[00:33:26] Speaker B: Total accident.
We have a project, a market rate project on 79th Street. We put a couple million bucks into a mixed use property there.
[00:33:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: We did a groundbreaking ceremony. It was the first time, you know, multiple millions have been invested in 79th street in a generation.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: That's an Auburn Gresham.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: Auburn Gresham. No tax credits. No to just straight market rate investment. And so it attracted some attention. And so different politicians so forth came to the groundbreaking ceremony. Unbeknownst to me, somebody from Lowe's was in the crowd. You know, I showed off at the groundbreaking. We have a thing where we show off all the local contractors that got jobs because of the investment, just to get community buy in.
And guy walks up to me, he says, hey, I'm from Lowe's. This is really cool, this, like, sustainable thing you're doing for everyday people. I'm gonna tell my boss, I didn't know him from Joe.
[00:34:21] Speaker A: Yeah. But here you are, treating everybody equal, you know? Yeah.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: So I gotta thank my mom. And the guy walks away. He sends a letter to an email to a person to a person to a person that makes it to the CEO's desk of Lowe's. He sends. I get a blind email. They send the entire executive staff From Lowe's to 79th and Loomis, if you know that neighborhood.
[00:34:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: No security, no publicist, no cameraman. They show up, full suits in the dead of summer.
So they're sweating.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:54] Speaker B: And they walking around and they're just looking, and they're like, we can't believe you're really doing this. And I bought the building. There was a drug dealer on three. There was a sex worker on two. There was an old lady who was scared to come into the hallways.
And obviously we changed all of that. I mean, we just changed the whole narrative on the corner. And so they finished the tour, they looked around, and, you know, it was the first project in that community that had. I'm looking for fresh air ventilation. Because in those neighborhoods, you want fresh air, you got to open the window. So we put fresh air ventilation in the building. It was the first time in the whole community had ever seen that. So they were impressed, and they said, how can we help? I said, well, you know, a lot of ways you can help me start with a check, you know, whatever. And so.
[00:35:40] Speaker A: Yeah, this shit's not free.
[00:35:42] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
You know, they left, and then I got a call, like, a month later, and they said, we decide we're gonna help you with the next 100.
So we're sending you 100 of everything.
100 fridges, 100 toilets, 100 shower heads, faucets, light fixtures. We're sending you 100. Send us an address, and we're dropping it off now.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: Did you have a project earmarked for the materials at that point?
[00:36:06] Speaker B: I had some projects, and some, as you know, developments take so long that even the projects that I had earmarked for were still conceptual. Or maybe we had site control and weren't there also. What a blessing. Let me also say, if this was nascar, I'd be wearing a Lowe's jacket.
But, you know, a blessing. Some. But if somebody calls you tomorrow and says, I got 100 fridges for you.
[00:36:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:31] Speaker B: You know, we had to find a place, put 100 toilets, 100 fridges, 100 light. Eight different light fixtures, 100 of them.
[00:36:37] Speaker A: Yeah. You're not. Put them in your office on Wacker, huh? Yeah.
[00:36:40] Speaker B: So it was an absolute blessing. And then on top of that, when they gave us the hundred of everything, they also gave us a blanket 30% discount every time we walk in the store.
[00:36:51] Speaker A: Geez.
[00:36:52] Speaker B: And so as long as this is a situation.
[00:36:54] Speaker A: I'm sorry.
[00:36:54] Speaker B: No, no.
[00:36:55] Speaker A: So you.
I think it's important to note here that you redeveloped this. Like, a lot of people listening might know Auburn Gresham, but, like, redeveloping a building to that standard in that neighborhood is not commonplace. And you did it in such a way with the solar, with the energy efficiency that benefits the tenants. It benefits. Benefits to the bottom line of the property. But you did it to a standard that you don't see often anywhere, let alone in that neighborhood, unfortunately. It would be great to see more.
And so you did it the right way before you asked them for anything. And then these other things from Lowe's and the recognition that you got from it and the politicians that love to kind of come out when something's done. Done already.
Everything happened afterwards. So I just have to point out, like, the lesson in that, because, like, doing something the right way, not taking any shortcuts, not doing it because you were asking Lowe's for $500,000. And then here you are. This is what Comes of it, I.
[00:37:57] Speaker B: Didn'T ask for anything. I just said, I'll take anything. Because if they'd cut me a check for 10 grand, I'd have been like, great. It's the same thing. And I think part of it's a part of our investment thesis because I think some of these projects, for me, I think there's kind of two ways in real estate that everyone kind of teaches. It's either you're going to invest as little as possible and raise the rents as high as possible. And what we've done is said, okay, what if we invest strategically and make the building operate better? So then it lowers our operating expenses, so that lessens our burden to raise the rents. Because in many of these communities there's no capacity to raise those rents. Right. And so then if we can be patient capital and be strategic capital, then maybe there's an outcome there. And so we tested that there and then. Obviously it was great to get that kind of support on the back end.
[00:38:49] Speaker A: Very validating, right? Yeah, yeah, you said that. It reminded me of a guy that I'm friendly with. He's a residential broker at Cross Street, Alex Morsh. He said, you know, he thinks about real estate. Either folks that are good at spending a lot of money or that are good at not spending any money, like you either find a way to somehow strategically deploy a lot of money to do things that really impress users, banks, investors, whatever, or you find a way to be very frugal and thrifty and be kind of, you know, not. I don't, I don't want to say lowest cost provider and that it's always a bad thing, but that you find a way to be leaner than others, so.
[00:39:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I think that's instinctual. Something about that. Instinctual to our industry. Yeah, and, and, and we understand. I mean, also these, these are never, none of these deals are easy. Not the crane. You know, all our friends that own this, you know, the big developers that do stuff in the West Loop or Lincoln park, to the guy that mom and pop that owns a six unit. This is not an easy game. So I have respect for everybody that's in it.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: What's the 548 Foundation? What are you focused on now?
[00:39:56] Speaker B: Yeah, so the foundation. What's interesting is what I learned. What's equally as important as lowering people's utility bills is that when you're making these investments is who gets these jobs. And I think it's one of the most under discussed. All these real estate gurus. Everybody's a billionaire, all of a sudden.
[00:40:14] Speaker A: Nobody wants log into your LinkedIn and just a zillion people dude telling you how to live your life.
[00:40:18] Speaker B: Every Instagram. Guys, real estate billionaire that's got 9,000 units all of a sudden.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: One of the most under discussed things is who gets the jobs, who's the beneficiary of your investments. We always talk about the tenants, but who's actually doing the construction. And so you want to change. So me showing up to 79th street, first time in a generation somebody like myself pulls up, well, I just created 25 jobs.
If in a neighborhood that's got a 24% poverty rate, if I just make sure three people get jobs, I've moved the needle a little bit, right? And so I had the alderman in my ear and I'm starting to realize this. And so I said, I leaned on one of the contractors and I said, well, hold on, if I'm the lead investor and developer, you kind of got to do what I say. And so I said, look, man, why don't you hire some people from the neighborhood? Here's a couple of young guys, let them pick up trash or do something. And he said, well, the problem with your guys is that they don't want to show up on time. And they're not certified. They're not safe things that are relatively valid. If you, you've been on job sites, some of these young people are late or lazy. It's true about everybody.
[00:41:29] Speaker A: Some of the old people are too.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: Yeah, you said it. So I said, okay, fair enough. So I started the Foundation, a separate 501C3 to do the workforce training in these neighborhoods. And so we did it with a little class of 10. And then at the end we found jobs for them and we kept doing. And this story gets crazier. We did it for 10, then we did it for 20, then we did it for 40. And then the governor finds out and he gives me $30 million to expand the program throughout the region.
[00:41:59] Speaker A: Jeez.
[00:42:00] Speaker B: And so we've got offices up to Waukegan, down to Joliet and Aurora, throughout the south and west sides. And now we've got like 200 graduates and a 500 person wait list.
[00:42:10] Speaker A: So it's all about finding people from the neighborhoods and trying to teach them of the trades, teach them of the opportunity and trades, and then connecting them with the actual opportunity. So it's not abstract. It's not just like, not that this wouldn't be good too, but it's not just that you're Learning about a particular trade. You're also saying, like, here's the opportunity to go put into practice.
[00:42:34] Speaker B: I have been very clear.
I don't, like, I'm a businessman. I don't run a nonprofit. But this is about opportunities. And so every person that comes into through the door, if we can't match them with a job opportunity, at the end, we'll just close the doors.
And if you want to get a contract with me, let me just be clear for anybody who hears me, you get a contract from me, you will be hearing, I will be putting in every contract, which I have. And no one's giving me any issues with this. Hire a couple guys.
[00:43:04] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's. Because it's. I mean, it's a good thing for both. Right? Like, if you really, you know, I think that there's so many people in the real estate business that really care, that want. That do want to affect the change in a particular neighborhood for the better, whether it's an affluent neighborhood or an impoverished neighborhood. I think that a lot of people, if given the opportunity and provided it doesn't totally upset the apple cart on, like, the. The economics of the deal, would like to do some good along with it.
[00:43:32] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:43:33] Speaker A: So are you finding that you have.
Is there a balance between the workforce that you've created and like, you know, I know you have a lot of developments of your own, and then you're working with others to kind of assume, place these candidates, like, how's the balance of people versus projects?
[00:43:55] Speaker B: You know, we've staffed up on that side, so, I mean, there's a lot of people focused on getting those folks jobs and getting them certified and getting them set up. So, I mean, relatively. I mean, obviously, then the only problem I think we have with placing all those folks is where the market cycle is. I mean, if there were a couple more cranes in the sky, this wouldn't even be much of an issue. So far, the program's been overly well received. Everyone's like, they meet our students, meet our graduates. They're overly trained. They're very professional. Perfect attendance. Like, they're ready to work. These guys are hungry. And so. And I say, guys, our valedictorian of our last class was a woman. And so, I mean, yeah, we've got. We've got a great group of folks.
[00:44:37] Speaker A: Yeah, it's incredible, man.
So if you were to say, like, how are you looking to. How could you further integrate, like, the 548 foundation into the real estate community? Is it, as you talked about earlier in our Conversation. Is it about meeting more people, connecting with more with other developers? Because you can't put all these people into practice. You have a lot going on, but you can't.
[00:45:04] Speaker B: Can't.
[00:45:05] Speaker A: So what are you trying to do to kind of grow it? Is it more of the, Is it more on the workforce side or more on the project side?
[00:45:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I think the truth is the downside of founding a company is that it takes your image. Right. And so companies tend to reflect good and bad thing.
Correct. And one of the things I am terrible at is self promotion. Crappy website, crappy social media. I'm a terrible storyteller when it comes to touting our own stuff.
[00:45:34] Speaker A: I could argue with you about your self promotion. You promote yourself in a different way, carrying yourself to a high. I had no idea what you did before, before I met you. You promote yourself a different way. Right. But I understand, like you're not the guy to hold a megaphone and say, here's what I do. Look at my accomplishments.
[00:45:52] Speaker B: Right. And I think the counter what somewhat what marketing and PR people that want to get me under marketing contracts would say, AJ if you told the story more and consistently, then it would open the doors for more partnerships. Other developers would come to you and say, hey, let me, let me create a pathway for your graduates to get on our job sites. Whether it's West Loop Towers or something, Lincoln Yards or the stadium or Michael Reese, any of the major developments, there should be partnerships there or even some.
[00:46:23] Speaker A: Of the smaller ones in the neighborhood. There's a lot more shovels in the ground right now in some of the small and medium sized stuff.
[00:46:29] Speaker B: 100%.
[00:46:29] Speaker A: I didn't interrupt you. Go ahead.
[00:46:30] Speaker B: No, no, no. I 100% agree and I think some of that's just telling a story and doing a better job of being consistent in marketing it. But I have just been so bad at it because I've always taken an approach that if you just do the work, people will figure it out. Good work speaks for itself. And we do live in a world where people need likes, subscribers, followers, retweets. And I kind of live in this other world of like, let me just keep working, dude.
[00:46:57] Speaker A: It's to, you know, I agree and I truthfully, it's part of the reason why I'm doing this because in my business, in a lot of our businesses, there's a level of self promotion that's required. And I think that it's hard to, you know, as a broker, it's hard to balance. Oh, here's something I'M selling or here's something we just sold. And you know, I want to also deliver some content of value. Hopefully that is a way to stay in touch with my audience and grow my audience without it being like, like I'm always asking for something.
So that's part of what the initiative here is, is just like finding other ways to self promote without feeling like a, you know, douchebag. It doesn't have myself.
[00:47:45] Speaker B: No, I don't think. And let me clarify, it doesn't. And this is the lesson that I had to learn over the last several months. It doesn't have to be an or. It can be an and.
[00:47:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:47:54] Speaker B: And I'm always thinking about there's so many people that are so good at promoting, they get themselves in these situations and you meet them and you try to do a transaction with them and they're so underwhelming. And then there's other folks like yourself who's done great work for a long time and has flown under the radar. You're a star for those that know. And then there's this other world that could be had if we started to tell the story more. Right. And so it's probably an end. You can keep doing great work and start telling the story more and more and more and then we can do best of both worlds. I mean, you know, I always go back to me buying my house recently and it was this mega star realtor and I'm like Anna and I, who are both in real estate, you know, we're tough people to please. And we both looked at each other and said, this ain't it.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: Yeah, well, yeah, it's interesting because it feels like there's a hard.
I'm going to share it, kind of an inverse experience. And I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's the same person or not. We, we bought and sold our last place through Jeff Lowe and he's at Compass. He's a, you know, really well recognized broker and he, we were very, you know, I'm in the real estate business. I'm a broker and I think it made me kind of appreciate the level of service. He's very good at something that I've tried to employ my businesses. He was very good at being involved without micromanaging, without doing stuff that he was kind of like leaning on his team to do things that he didn't have to do, but when there were still business points to discuss, was involved. So I think that he does a good job of. I think Marrying the two where he's promoting himself, but he's also a doer. He's actually somebody that's like getting a lot done and he's not all talk.
And I agree that if you can walk that line, if you can do both, it can certainly be, you know, it can help you develop your business. It creates this. It creates like a, I think a compounding effect kind of for your business if you have the ability to execute. But you're not shy about it either.
[00:50:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I thought you said you're a rookie. That was a pro. Move on spinning that to something positive.
[00:50:11] Speaker A: This. I even put the iPad down so people didn't know I was reading it.
I mean we're going to finish with a few questions. I'm going to ask all the guests. Not rapid fire. So go ahead and explain yourself. Even though we didn't apply the rapid fire to the earlier questions. Anyhow, as CEO of a portfolio companies in Chicago, what's a typical day look like and what would you like to do? Hang on, sorry. What's something you'd like to do more of and what's something you'd like to do less of in your daily work life?
[00:50:43] Speaker B: Okay, more of and less of. You know, typical day for me. Gym, six, shower, take my. One of the things I'm really passionate about is I always take my son to school.
[00:51:00] Speaker A: Same dude.
[00:51:01] Speaker B: And I just, I don't. I work 70, 80 hours every week. I don't get to spend. I mean he's young but I just, I take that very personal. And so I take him to school every day. That's just important for me. So I take my son to school. Then usually I'm on calls all morning.
More of. I definitely wish I spent more, did more one on ones and because I want to do a better job of building up like better layers of management and leadership. And so now that I've found out who some of my star players are, I'm going to invest more time in them individually, one on one, getting them the one on one attention that they've indirectly or directly asked for. I want to build up more talent. We've made two more hires this week. We've got two more coming up. I really want to do, I want to spend more time building talent.
Less of man. I have to do a lot of public events.
[00:52:01] Speaker A: You know, like the schmoozen.
[00:52:03] Speaker B: You know, at some point. Yeah, yeah, I'll just leave it there at some point. It be nice to not have to do that every day.
[00:52:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I hear you Good stuff for someone getting started in their real estate career. What's a piece of advice that you give them to propel their career and or set themselves up for long term success?
[00:52:25] Speaker B: If I had to do it again, I give everybody the same two pieces of advice. If I had to do it again, I would have kept my day job, I would have strung it as long as I could keep that check in healthcare for as long as possible while building my business strategy. The beauty of real estate is you could have a 9 to 5. There are people, there's whole investment thesis around being a 9 to 5 millionaire. Like that's a real thing. Yeah, so I tell folks all the time, like before you jump out here and think you're going to be, you know, the great developer of all time, just know that it might be two years before you make a buck. Are you ready to weather that storm? Is your family ready to weather that storm?
[00:53:07] Speaker A: Dude, I think it's something that's gotten worse lately too with the social media because like we, we were joking about it for a second but it's serious, like everybody promoting themselves. So like without any like validation I guess, like you go on and every time you open up one of your whatever they call those feeds or whatever, it's like everybody's rich and everybody's popping. Here's a 20 IRR on this deal. You know it, you know, you do the brrr method, you buy, renovate, refi, whatever. It's, you know, it's like. And I think that it creates this disillusion or whatever you want to call it of what it really takes to get started in real estate. And like I different but similar in that like I left a good job in medical sales to be a broker where I made no money. And like I, it worked out but you know, skipped vacations, didn't go out with my friends. Like, you know, you sign like you take a big, big step back in what you're making. And it's a reality of starting in the business that I don't think people appreciate as much on an increasing basis. Like I think it's getting more and more like kind of disconnected from what the actual like start in real estate is. And, and it's like in brokerage you call it like commission breath. Like if you, if people know that you have to make a check to make a living, then all of a sudden I'm representing you. Are my interests aligned? Am I doing it for you or am I doing it for me? You know, and I think people can lie to themselves and say, oh, I'm still doing what's best. You know, you're trying to support yourself and put food on the table. Like it's impossible to always act in the long term interest of your clients if you are in that desperate state. So I think people should talk to folks like you or folks like me and just not to say don't go for it, but understand what's going to be, what's going to entail to launch your own thing and go from having a really comfortable lifestyle to not.
[00:55:21] Speaker B: That's it. And I would say the other piece of advice I really consistently give and it sounds counterintuitive coming from me, start small. There's so much education from zero to one. You know, when I started, I started with a six, six unit. It was a terrible decision. It's way too big for to be on your own. Regardless of how many millions you think you've managed. Go do a one, two flat single family, two flat. You're gonna learn a lot of lessons. You're gonna get screwed over by a contractor. You might as well take a $50,000 loss, then a $800,000 loss. And that's a lesson people don't ever talk about, is that if you start small then you can build the momentum in the coalition of contractors, service providers. You have no idea the amount of people involved in the development.
Between architects, lawyers, environmental folks, engineers.
There's like every one of my deals has 13, 14 different people involved.
[00:56:23] Speaker A: Well, and I think when people hear, you know, people see you, you know, young guy and yet you look on your youngish, you look on your website and same age as me, look on your website and you know, you see these, the types of projects that you have in the pipeline right now, massive complex, neighborhood changing type developments. And then I think it'll be refreshing for people to hear you say start small. You know, make small mistakes at the beginning and it's just not as sexy for people to do or talk about. So they end up trying to talk themselves into doing something larger and bigger deal, bigger mistakes.
[00:57:06] Speaker B: Well, and I think what you also, I alluded to this when we started, but you also have an invisible client at all times, which is the bank. So if you started with a one and then did a two, then a four, then an eight, now you've built a real track record.
[00:57:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Whether it's the bank or whether it's investors or whether it's just your own confidence, like yeah, yeah, I'm with you dude. You know, I want to keep this As a very pro Chicago. I'm very pro Chicago.
I know that you are. And we both are raising our families in the city. We both are growing our businesses in the city. We're both investing in the city. And I like to think that we're both doing it the right way and trying to build real relationships with people and be good stewards of the community as we do it. So tell me why you love Chicago as a place to live and work and invest?
[00:57:59] Speaker B: Oh, man. I mean, we need another hour for this. But I think. I mean, I say this everywhere I go. I think Chicago's the best city in America. You know, preach. It just. It checks all the boxes in terms of public transportation affordability.
You know, you've got the lake, which is like our secret. Like, it's just amazing.
And then we've got the best food scene in the country. So, like, we're food junkies. We go out to eat. I mean, we're out all the time for food. Like, it's our thing. So, I mean, I still. And you know, not to crap on New Yorkers. I mean, it's a great. New York's a good city, but it kind of reminds me of. If you ever seen those power washing movies, like power washing clips, where they power wash something. You realize how clean it is underneath. That is the difference between New York and Chicago.
[00:58:51] Speaker A: You go to West Village and, like, garbage piled on the street.
[00:58:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:54] Speaker A: What's going on?
[00:58:55] Speaker B: If you power wash New York, you could see Chicago. That's.
[00:58:59] Speaker A: I mean, in addition to those things, you have diversity, you know, but you have diversity with an undertone of, like, Midwestern values. You know, people that are connecting with each other and they're not. You know, there's just this.
It's got. It's like, you know, it's got sharp elbows, too, but there's a. I think that there's a warmness to it still. It's still like this beacon for, you know, you're from Indiana, I'm from Iowa. Like, we aspired to live in Chicago.
[00:59:28] Speaker B: It's still Mecca for the Midwest. It still is.
[00:59:31] Speaker A: Then diversity economically, too. All these different industries that call Chicago home, it's important for them to have a presence here. So a few of the many reasons why. I love the city, too.
[00:59:43] Speaker B: Love the shot.
[00:59:43] Speaker A: Good stuff, dude.
Thanks for doing it.
[00:59:46] Speaker B: Of course, brother.
[00:59:47] Speaker A: Thanks for bearing with me.
[00:59:48] Speaker B: I couldn't tell you no. I'd have to see you tomorrow either way.
[00:59:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks again for being on, A.J.
[00:59:53] Speaker B: Of course, man. Thanks for having me.
