Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Thanks for tuning into another real estate Chicago style podcast. I'm your host, Joe Smazel. I'm a broker and partner in Terra Realty, sell midsize apartment buildings on the north side of the city and own and operate some small buildings on the north side too.
Today on the podcast we have got Shane Rockman from Cross Street. Shane, welcome to the podcast.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: Thank you for having me.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: I almost called it the pod, but I'm trying not to call it the pod. I said to somebody that we're potting but nobody says potting, potting. I think it feels kind of like a gross word. In some ways that's what they call.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Like a group of dolphins, a pod. Oh, believe it or not.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: Well, we're.
Thanks for coming on. If you've listened to the first few episodes, we, we kind of got strong. I was going to have you on anyway, but we kind of got strong armed into doing it because two out of the first three people that were on plugged you in one way or another. So we figured, let's have you on. Let's hear the story. So thanks for making time to do.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: I appreciate it. Honored to be here. And the plugs are more than enough appreciation.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Well, that, you know, just even the way that you acknowledge that leads me into the first part of this. So most real estate bios, mine included, talk about how many buildings you've sold, how many millions of dollars you manage, how many people are on your team. A lot of accolades, a lot of like. And I read yours in preparation for this and it is just the opposite. I'm going to read a couple blurbs from it. Shane is all about supporting every aspect of the team and helping owners create plans for their real estate assets. Shane's passion for real estate is fueled by the tangible nature of the industry and the profound impact it, it has on people's everyday lives. Shane's greatest strength is his attentive listening. He thrives on the entrepreneurial nature of the real estate business, finding joy and inspiring others to take the plunge. Friends would describe him as someone who rallies the troops and clients see him as a true partner in their real estate endeavors. I know well you, I know you well enough to know that that is not bullshit too. I mean, that is really how you lead your team and how you work with other people. We're going to talk about that a little bit, but kudos for being different, you know, and we're going to get into the why. But first, rapid fire questions.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: Okay, got it. And thank you for the kind Words already, Joe. The appreciation continues.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Don't make every answer. Feel free to be, you know, I mean, thin crust or deep dish?
[00:02:38] Speaker A: Thin crust.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: From where?
[00:02:40] Speaker A: Have you heard of a place called Pizza Mata?
[00:02:42] Speaker B: No.
[00:02:43] Speaker A: No. Do you know what Giant is?
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Put it on my.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah, put on your list. Yeah, it's like a total little hole in the wall place right behind Giant. And it is the people who are the chefs at Giant.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: It's a little pizza Armitage and Kit. Like.
[00:02:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Kids are right behind right there. Yeah. It's a little. It's a little shop, kind of like old school, divey pizza feeling place. And the pizza's fantastic.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: Oh, Giants the bomb, too. Different type altogether.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: Lakefront 606 or Riverwalk?
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Lakefront all day.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: I was a tried and true.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: Tried and true. I moved to Wicker park. Made my wife go there. She cried a little bit about it. But we came back to the lakefront eventually.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: That's the way to go.
Favorite intersection or corridor in the city.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: I think I'm gonna lean into the Logan Square area. I lived at, like, Sacramento in the boulevard. I love the Kedzie Boulevard intersection.
[00:03:32] Speaker B: Where Boulevard is. Yeah. When you hear, like, Mark Fishman talk, who bought a lot of buildings in Logan Square, he talks about the boulevard streets, the parks in Logan Square. And I think in hindsight, it seems so obvious.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: So obvious.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: But 15 years ago, when I started, Logan Square was not nearly as buzzy and popular as it is today. And it. But when you look at the city just on a map and you see those beautiful boulevard streets and the gray stones and the classic architecture, it's like, how is this hiding under plain sight? But it's an awesome neighborhood.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: It's spot on. It's as European as we get. It's the big, green, lush boulevards, the old school buildings.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Public transportation.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: Public trans. The retail was cheap enough to get some good.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: Kind of operators in there that were interesting.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
All right. Good stuff. Best Chicago steakhouse.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: Best Chicago steakhouse. I'm not a massive steak guy.
[00:04:22] Speaker B: Fish. That's why.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Fish.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: I gotta.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Fit and.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Yeah. RPM steaks pretty solid, I think. Yeah.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: What about you? I'm more interested.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: We can cut that. Because you're not a steak guy. You're not. You're not qualified to answer that. What's your favorite Italian restaurant? And said you like Italian food?
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah, Love Italian food. I like an old school kind of divey.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: Italian place.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Authentic.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: Yeah, authentic. Real. If I had to. If I had to pick.
Wow. Blanking For a minute, but maybe. Have you been to Formentos?
[00:04:55] Speaker B: I have, yeah.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: I think Formentos kind of blends that, like, new age style.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: It's not dingy, but it's good. Classic food style. Classic food style. All right, what's your favorite building style in the city? Whether it's a certain type of building structure or actually specific building, you can answer it however you want.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: I think the. The beautiful, like, brick courtyard buildings that you would find right in that Logan Square area. Those are hard to beat for me also.
[00:05:20] Speaker B: I mean, in addition to being, like, striking from the curb, they just end up lending well to layouts and lights. I know it's probably part of the reason it's driving your answer, but I love them. I also.
Joe Hayes is building a new courtyard, which I find to be just like the coolest thing because it's not a particularly efficient use of the land generally. You know, like, I don't think anybody's built a court. A true courtyard in the city for a long time. And goes to show, you know, a guy that's doing it the right way has been doing it for a long time, but just a beautiful building style.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: I totally agree.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: You can't stand in the courtyard and not feel. Feel like this is great city living 100.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: The lights beaming into your point. Big two beds on the corners. Usually it's. It's optimal.
[00:06:05] Speaker B: I feel you there. All right. I think one of the reasons why Chicago real estate's fun is it takes a lot of different personalities, and I think we're all a little bit weird. Can you share. Can you share a weird trait or personality, you know, hobby of yours that's weird or anything weird about you?
[00:06:22] Speaker A: A weird quirk.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: You have a lot. So if you need a prompt.
[00:06:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I've got, I've got. I've got a million weird items all buttoned up.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: I know Mona.
[00:06:28] Speaker A: I can unfold.
I think the, you know, as. I've gotten a little bit more into my, like, old. Old age here with kids, and I've become like very two track, like working.
Working with my kids. But the, the weird.
The weirdest quirk I could say is for a guy who feels like fluid and then maybe I go out to coffee shops and can kind of hang it to have like a routine and see you at the gym every morning is. Is a part of my staple regimen to have a couple of those, like, cornerstones. Yeah. That you need of reprieve. So for me, it's working out in my family.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: All righty. Plug an up and coming Chicago real estate person that you think deserves some recognition.
[00:07:11] Speaker A: Well, I think you've, you've brought a lot of them through the podcast now, but Friedberg would be the first. Adam Friedberg would be the first person that comes to mind. I think maybe he's up and come already, but yeah, he grinds it out there and is really working hard and making a difference.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: He's a dynamo. And I think also the way you can answer, I think it's a fair answer the question because of the way they're scaling the business, you know, so. So I'm with you there.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Also. Sorry, TJ. I watched TJ's podcast. He did one internal, one external. And I think someone who could take us in a little bit of different direction in this conversation too is a woman in my office, Sarah Jaffe. She's in the residential sales space. So not as much multi family oriented, but she's up and coming for sure.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: Well, tell us what made her stand out when you heard that question.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Dedication to the craft and I think just pure understanding of the business and the people that are involved. She's doing things the right way, very systematic, very methodical, and she's just getting started.
[00:08:06] Speaker B: Okay, awesome.
All right, man. Tell us about a young Shane Rockman.
Make sure that you, you know, lead us into kind of how you got into real estate, why you got into real estate.
And I know that it'll come up, but your pops is one of the best guys in the business, Steve Rockman. So I'm sure that it's part of the answer, but you need to make sure to touch on that.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: Well, I think I got most of my, most of my good, good mindset and moral compass from my dad so that I'll start it there. Yeah, but growing up didn't really have particular interest for real estate. My dad was in it at the time. I think I really enjoyed sports like a lot of young boys and spent a lot of time in my friends basements and we were like very sports oriented almost. No, no business.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: Second grade. I thought you were going to be a pitcher or something like that.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Exactly. Pitcher. Maybe soccer player if it was lucky. Yeah, grew out of that.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: So when did you realize you sucked at sports?
[00:09:10] Speaker A: Well, you know, to be, to be the best Jewish kid at Highland Park High School is not a high bar. So early on when we played Main South, I think.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: The journey from there, I went to Iowa and I kind of got out of my little bubble and I think that was a time where I found a Little bit of confidence in myself, just working with different people, understanding how different people think than just my little bubble of where I came from. Was an engineer there. And so out of school, my dad, my family kind of pushed me to facilitate my engineering degree. And that felt very good and facilitation of a lot of the skills that I have today that I think are operational mechanical sequencing things.
And that's why I think I lean into tech and systems today.
But then I always felt like I had a cap, a glass ceiling because it was a corporate America for me.
And I shifted over my uncle's Mike Zucker, who is Peak Properties and I.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Think his soon to be soon to be released on the pie soon launch.
[00:10:16] Speaker A: And I was traveling around, going to different hospitals and Mike always said to me, come to real estate, I'll teach you how to invest, I'll teach you the game. And I think that was just widely appealing to leave kind of the corporate environment.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: So the why was kind of that entrepreneurial bug that was. So even though you kind of had this engineering brain that likes things done a certain way, you had a bug to do your own thing.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I had a bug to do my. And sorry, I'll back up really quick. I think one pivotal piece for me too was. Was actually in the technical product space at Medline. Yeah, that's where I was working before. And I had to be put in front of kind of like the entire. Or to pitch a product. Right. I would get up and I would give my technical explanation in front of the nurses and the doctors and I'd have to service the doctors through the day when they were using a new product. I was a kid who was like super shy before I did all that. And so getting up in front of 50 highly specialized folks was not ideal for me at the time.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: We've never talked about that. But my first gig out of school was in medical equipment sales. I wasn't an engineer because I wasn't smart enough, but I.
But I did like presentations to doctors and nurses about specialty hospital beds.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: That's what I was doing.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: Sold this well. You guys were the big guys. Medline was big. I worked for a company called Craig Therapeutics and the guy is. I'm gonna go off on a little tangent, but the guy basically like helped design a bed that like stood up in a standing position. So you're like in a weight bearing position. And a lot of like clinical evidence of that post surgery or like, you know, folks who are bedridden to prevent like bed sores. And stuff. So I was like kind of going around and, and I liked.
I was a little bit more like sales oriented versus like engineering. But it gave me a lot of confidence because these are like, it's exactly what you're describing. Like highly specialized, smarter than I'll ever be about their craft. But having the confidence that you can know a lot about this one niche thing and going and talking to them and explaining the benefits to them and how it can impact their patients lives and stuff. It was. We've never talked about that, but a very, very like direct in Medline got all the business we need. Well, we have way more.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: I was selling. I was selling bed mattresses that would actually warm the patients during surgery. So it was almost exactly. It was half the problems you were solving. But the one thing that I learned in that space that is like almost the opposite of what you said is that even when you're in an open heart surgery and the doctor's working on these patients.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:45] Speaker A: It's okay to tell the doctor, I don't know the answer. Let me step out of the room and take. Make a call.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Dude.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: I think that was huge.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: I think it is a display of confidence we talk about all the time in the brokerage business. And I don't. Maybe you talk to your young. I think a prospective client or client hates when you make up an answer that you don't know the answer. And. And if you. And if they don't catch it as bullshit, even worse because then they act on whatever your incorrect information is. But I think a big part of being confident in what you do is knowing what you know and knowing what you don't know. And when people hear you acknowledge something that you don't know and say, you know what? I'm not sure. Let me get the answer for you. It shows then everything that you, everything that you say and are confident in, they believe because built in more trust. Right.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: And that's. That is the exact narrative I give to the young brokers in my office is it's like the fake it till you make it part is partially true. But it's. We have all the resources at your disposal. Everyone will answer the phone for you at any time.
[00:13:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: So don't tell your client something that you won't be proud of in six to 12 months.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: It's true, man.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Then they won't trust you ever again.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: I talked to TJ about that. Like that balance of like confidence and humility. Is it. Is it can. Those things can be at odds with each other. Sometimes in the real estate world, especially with just how like, on display everything seems to be these days. Yeah. But being able to walk that fine line, I think is a powerful thing.
So you were. As a kid, you kind of had an engineering brain. You kind of liked, like, building things, putting things together.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: Legos, they like kind of the standard stuff. But I was never going to be the guy to figure out the next great product. That's like earth shattering. So I think that was when I switched more into that sales mode, through that operating.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: But in the. Whether it's the medical space or in real estate, you. And even in your bio, I think you use the word tangible. Like you, you liked real estate for the ability to kind of touch and feel it.
[00:14:42] Speaker A: Oh, 100%. Yeah. Like to. To think about some sort of investment that's not a stock that you can drive by and see and know it's there. That was always appealing to me because I think in the medical world, I like the devices. Right. Like you could implement a hip.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's cool.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Wow. Cool.
[00:14:57] Speaker A: Yeah. But the tangibleness of real estate, I think, draws a lot of us to it. You can stand in an apartment. It evokes some sort of emotion I.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Experienced in the medical world. For it. It seems so abstract to me. It was like, how could anybody ever have thought about, like it was so foreign. But then real estate just came so much more natural. Like the, the bricks and mortar of it was more simple to me. More like I was able to wrap my head around it fast. Partly because it's a little bit more simple, but partly it's just. It's what resonated with me.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: And I liked being able to be a salesman in real estate more than in the medical field because being in the hospital and nursing home just. Or in the operating room, kind of, it takes a toll. And you have a lot of respect for the clinicians that do it and, you know, have a lot more at stake than what you do as a salesman. But being a salesman in real estate, it just, it's not the, it's not that environment where you're like almost guilty to sell.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: And it felt like couldn't, couldn't agree. There was a big part of me that wanted to like, save the world in the medical space. And when I got in there, I realized it was a business like most other businesses. And so you might as well find what business you align most with.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: My sister's a doctor, and I think part of what she was always so much smarter than me, like, wild like, she was younger than me and, like, would help me, like, check my homework. And we took the ACTS the same year, and she blew me out of the water. I mean, it's just so for me. I also, like, I'm not going to change the world clinically because she will and is now.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: Never keep up with her.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: I'm not so fun. Something that a B and C student can do.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: I love a B student. I'm a B student by nature. Just enough to get it done.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: One of my boys just got a couple Bs in his report card. And my wife is such, like, an a, you know, like, gold star. And I'm like, he could be a real estate broker. Like, anyway, that's all right. So everything about your bio and kind of what I was teasing you about a little bit before we got into it is about being a team player and being selfless. And you can't do it as consistently as you've done. You're not faking it. It's. It's kind of who you are. So is that how you were growing up? Is it something that you develop? You talked about when you were at Iowa. Kind of being a formative period of your life, like, is selflessness and. And especially as a leader of a real estate firm is a tough thing to be able to, like, devote so much of your Persona to even your bio. Like, I don't even. Like, your bio is about helping other people. So where'd it come from? How do you foster it? You know, how do you bring it out? Other people answer it however you want, but you have to. I mean, you can't. You're so selfless. And Teapot. You have to talk about it a little bit because I think it's an incredible trait as a leader of a real estate company.
[00:17:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I really appreciate the notion around that. Where it comes from, I think must fall somewhere in how you're raised, right. That's gotta be some sort of nurture component. I think my. My grandmother on my mom's side always kind of. She said something to me that stuck with me once that was like, I see that you're a person who, at the bus stop, like, someone will come up and ask a question to you. There's, like, a place of comfort. And I think that maybe there's a selfish part where you want to do your best for that person. Right. If they're coming up to you for something. So there's like, that obligation to the greater good.
That's a part of it. I think for me it's definitely how I raised. I liked always to be in a team. I liked team sports. I was in soccer, captain of the team a couple times. Which gives you that pressure of kind of, like, mobilizing people and wanting to activate them, which I think you either enjoy or you don't, as there's a little bit of that. But what I'll say to your comment is a challenge that that has created for me over time now, as we've definitely scaled our business a bit, is weighing.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: Now you're doing it, and you're like, man, look at me doing this. You know?
Sorry, you were about to say something good.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Going in a different direction. Thanks, Joe.
I think the challenge is weighing who you're being good to and good for, because the more people that you kind of bring into your world, it gets harder to be good for everyone all the time. And that, for me, has been a massive growth challenge. But kind of understanding what's better for the greater good is how to kind of repoint my North Star.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: It's. That is tricky. I mean, there's a lot of polls on your time, Right.
You have to be. I don't want to say selfish with your time, but you have to have some, like, rules with your time, at least, so that when you are giving somebody your attention, it's undivided, and it's where your whole team and where your family where yourself. It's, you know, it's also how you want to live your life. It's. It's a really tough thing when you have more on your to do list for the day than you can get done.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And you want to do great for everybody.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: Right. And you like people to be, you know, you don't want to let anybody down. You don't want to let yourself down. You don't want to let the brand down, your family down. It's a very. It's a thing that I struggle with, candidly, is, like, sometimes when you're at work, you're, like, thinking about something that you should be, you know, doing at home or, like, when, you know, even when you're at the gym thinking you're doing something good, you're like, I got to wrap this up. I got to get home. You know, It's a tough thing. So what do you, like. Do you have any, like, rules or guidelines or anything that kind of, like, help you manage your day to that effect?
[00:20:08] Speaker A: Trying to be better? I think balancing your meetings is important because they can kind of skew your day. Right. You get into A meeting, you're sitting one on one, your head gets busy with whatever you're filling it with. So I've tried to try to kind of push my meetings more towards the middle or the end of the day because I feel that I'm always fresh for the meetings. And in the mornings, you got fresh brain. You can sit down and actually like, crunch some of your more productive workout. I think that that flipped for me recently. I used to be a night owl where you would get all that done in the night. But now when you have kids, it's not possible. So you have to reorient. And my wife's pretty good about helping me stay honest about being home for dinner every night. I think that, you know, if you pick out what the key moments for you are in your day, it's really important. I mean, you have kids. Do you have the same balance?
[00:20:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that I pretty.
One thing that I think I'm good at is prioritizing my family and not compromising, spending time on them. Like, I.
I don't always make it home for dinner during the week. I guess, to be honest, I don't usually make it home for dinner of the week, but doing Fridays every. Every Friday. And I take my kids to school every day. I walk them to school every day, which is one of my favorite parts of the day. It's also awesome city living. They like ride their bikes or scooter or whatever, you know, like ripping skids at every section. So always walk them to school, always help, you know, get them ready for school after the gym and then help put them to bed every day at a minimum, play with them for, you know, I get home typically latest, unless there's like an industry event like 6:30 and you know, you get that time from 6:30 to 8 where you're hanging out, you know, getting to bed. And then if I need to catch up, I work, I work from, you know, eight to whenever it's time to go to bed.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: So that's the, that's the grind. I think you have the benefit of being in the city. So you get that morning section. That's. That's what I've lost by moving.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah, but you, but you get home, you know, gotta get to find a way to do it. Yeah.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: And to your point, how are you prioritizing where you stacking that time?
[00:22:05] Speaker B: It's tough, but it's.
TJ said something now, I don't even think it's on the podcast, but when we got breakfast, he said something to me that I'VE reminded myself, like without exaggeration a thousand times since he said it is be grateful for the problems you have. You know, like just if you're busy, be lucky that you're busy with work. Be lucky that you're busy with your kids. You know, it's. So that's just. I've like had that like ringing through my head.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: Yeah, Good problem. Those are good problems.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
All right, I am going to pivot and I want to talk about branding a little bit. Okay.
Not something I had you prep for or anything, but you. Cross street recently went through kind of a rebranding. And I'm a, I'm a big fan of it. I think that it, it's different, it's fresh, it's. But it's also like literal enough to what you guys do.
And I think that real estate is so much a branding business, like, and even your personal brand and how you carry yourself in the, you know, the, for me, the, like a lot of my brand is the properties I sell. It's like people kind of like know you as somebody that sells north side mid market apartment buildings of a certain size and expect that your work product is a certain caliber. So. But I want to talk about it in the context of Cross street because I think it's a great example. It's probably like fresh process for you. So like it's a year old. Yeah. What was. Well, so it's, it's fresh.
[00:23:30] Speaker A: No, it just turned one. I'm saying it had, it had its birthday. We had a cake in the office.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: There's a whole thing, the smash cake.
So talk to us about, like, why did you decide to do it? What went into it? You know, just, just like wherever you want to start as you thought about your brand, start there.
[00:23:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think the reason that we wanted to rebrand was kind of the legacy of the company that's been created into Cross street is that it came from Peak Properties, which is my uncle's property management firm. And what started to happen is we needed to keep the apartments filled. And the way that the market was filling apartments was partially done by the management firm and then partially done by third party apartment locating groups. And when I got into the business with my uncle, I started to feel that as an inefficiency because if the management company is not able to capture the bulk of the rentals and then they're outsourcing, they lose some pricing control, some vacancy loss, and then, you know, who's, who's the expert at filling that apartment. Becomes just like a theoretical question. So about five years ago, we took a portion of Peak and turned it into Peak Realty. It's like. And I know Adam Freeberg mentioned that.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: And that was like our first go at kind of putting a brokerage spin on the leasing platform. Because what happened is we would recruit in agents to do leasing and then we would lose them to AT Properties or Compass or Baird and Warner. And we had spent two years training them up.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: You're like, you just got going.
[00:25:02] Speaker A: You just got going.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: You just got going.
[00:25:03] Speaker A: You're just getting it.
And by the way, they're all great people. So to see them go like breaks your heart every time.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: But you also kind of like, you know, it put something in your head that something needs to be fixed here.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Right. So every time we lose someone or we have a problem, my head goes to, well, how can we fix that for the future? Right. And so the fix was to really go all in on building a brokerage and different. A little bit different than your brokerage. Our brokerage needs to be residential leaning. Cause that's where a lot of the people who are skilled at leasing want to go. They build a pipeline of people. They have their friends. Right.
[00:25:36] Speaker B: Also where the customer's going. Right. They rent them an apartment. They get to know you as a good person to deal with.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: And then they're the point of contact. Yeah. And so that. Those are the people that we attract and want to attract. And so Cross street was a commitment, commitment to them to build a sales first agency. Right. That powers them as a compass or an Atwood. And it was. Brand is so important. I think it's like everything. Right. And the interesting thing is we used a group called no Walls. Do you know Knowalls?
[00:26:03] Speaker B: No.
[00:26:04] Speaker A: They're great guys. Jake Reiner and Andrew Johnson. You can reach out to them.
They have, they have very interesting backgrounds, but they were a part of the Flats brand that was built.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Also cool brand.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: Also super cool brand. And we did kind of like a six month process with them where they did a deep dive. We just wanted a rebrand. And then they came in and I realized it was not just a rebrand. It's like a look into your soul of who you are and what's going on.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: And so they did a fantastic job of doing a diagnosis with us and our clients. They interviewed our clients, they talked to people in our office to get an understanding of who we were and then kind of put those things down. And it's not only a brand, it's A. It's, you know, the core values behind it, and we've got all these kind of little quick quips that we abide by. Like, we're a group that puts the size of the transaction behind the success of our clients. Right. Like, we. We beat that drum all day. So that. That's. That was the. The reason for the brand. And I think what it's done is it's given us an identity that allows us to scale a bit.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: How did they. Was Cross street just something that they had up on, like, a vision board or. I mean, obviously, after all of the interviews with your. With your team members and clients and stuff, like, do you remember how. Process specific one. Yeah.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: That they could come in and explain the process way better, but at the end of the day, they do some soul searching. You want to get it from here? Yeah, they. They do a bunch of soul searching and deep diving, and then they start to build you in a direction of kind of like, some of the softer pieces, like colors and vibes that might go along with something that they're envisioning. And then they get to the naming process, and that's a whole thing in itself. And they have a notion that picking a name is like the tofu principle. It's like the name alone might be uninteresting, but when you dress it up, it kind of becomes something. Right. Like tofu in a. In a pad Thai dish. If you had tofu on the side, you might not like it, but maybe in pad Thai, it's good.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: Oh, interesting analogy.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: So that's when I. I know Adam spoke about. I asked him about Cross street, and he didn't like it, and a bunch of people didn't actually like the name independently.
[00:28:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: But when you put it into the whole thing that they were bundling together, it started to look and feel right.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: Yeah. That's what stuck with me. Even, like, the intersection of people and place. I think it's kind of like the tagline or whatever.
[00:28:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: It's just, like, it's very neighborhoody. It's very. It feels very Chicago. And I, you know, a little bit later, I want to talk about, like, kind of what differentiates you guys, but it's clearly different. It's fresh.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: Do you remember any, like, specific things about the process of them getting to know you that was, like, insightful for you in, like, the culture you wanted to have or specific goals of the business? Like, did they ask you, like, anything specific that you just like, damn, like, we got to do that different or, like, that it just something that triggered like a growth goal or something like that.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: I think.
Let me contemplate that for a minute. The first thing that comes to mind is, I think what it did was take a lot of the things we were doing subconsciously and bring them to light and make them tangible.
So all of a sudden now you have a better vision of how to work those things into what you're doing. And they had a very methodical process about it. And some of those things came from our clients, some of those things came from our internal folks. And you don't even realize what you're doing until maybe they're called out and put on a document in front of you.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: And it's healthy too. Sometimes this has been like this implied, like standard or goal or whatever. But now this is who we are. This is our, this is our mantra. This is like our guiding light or whatever.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: I think that, I think what, what really stood out the most was just how we wanted to treat people in general. And I think, like you keep commenting about how the bio reads. I think we tried to do our best subconsciously at what we're doing, but now we kind of have a little bit more method to the madness of how to do that.
[00:29:57] Speaker B: Okay.
I don't know what a guy has to do to get a hat, by the way. I've never could use like a hat or you guys are too cool.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: You probably get you a hat.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: You probably have like beanies or something because you guys are all cool.
[00:30:08] Speaker A: You'll see what we get because it will show up here at your door. I should have sent you one before this so you'd be, have been rocket.
[00:30:14] Speaker B: All right, so what, you know, I, I, I. Let's just talk about what makes you guys different. You know, you are different. And I could see it as a, as a, a person in the marketplace and as a potential customer. I see, like, that it's fresh, it's young, it's like, it's, it's clearly entrepreneurial, but it's professional still. It's polished, it's trendy. Like, so what do you think?
What do you think, like, when somebody says, how is Cross street different? Whether it's a client or a prospective, like, team member?
[00:30:45] Speaker A: So I think we have answers, actually that are connected but different to those two groups.
[00:30:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Answer both ways.
[00:30:50] Speaker A: So if the client is the owner or the investor, the reason we're different is because we're doing leasing differently. Right. Where they would typically have either a property management person or a third party contract with locators that can come in and backfill apartments.
We're a unique solution in the sense that we fill the exact middle. We're applying high caliber salespeople to the leasing space and we'll do it proactively so we can save on some of their fixed cost. Right. That would typically be associated with payroll, marketing dollars and some of these elements that go into making the product productive.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: So let me, let me interrupt you for a second. So rather than. Is a way to paraphrase, I'd say like, rather than being a third party locator that is called on when there's an assignment, you're kind of like plugging in as an extension of the team and you're like running leasing as a partner in their team in general. Is that accurate?
[00:31:48] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. Right.
[00:31:49] Speaker B: So you're not trying every time a lease comes up. You're not like, all right, let's recreate the wheel. How are we going to do it? Here's it. You're just like, you're, you're proactively kind of solving the leasing so they don't need to staff for it and train for it.
[00:32:00] Speaker A: Exactly. And, and the way like Sal actually said this at one of the panels I was on with him, but we just, we handle the income side of the building. Right. We have a lot of information on what the market is doing, where the rents are at. It's the best. We're salespeople. That's where we live.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: Top line revenue.
[00:32:18] Speaker A: Exactly. We can boost it in every which way. But I think the complement to that is the ability to work on the fixed cost element. And especially as costs have risen for apartment buildings everywhere to be flexible and kind of pay for performance is interesting. And we can bring the, the talented sales agents in proactively to field the leads before the units go empty as opposed to getting a hot sheet when, when the units are empty because we have the captive team that becomes the leasing agent.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: So it's the fixed costs you're describing. Saving on is in turn like they don't have any downtime. They don't. Or what is this?
[00:32:51] Speaker A: That's, that's actually the, that's the upside. The, the mitigating vacancy and boosting rents are the, are the result of the good work. But the reduction of fixed cost is payroll allocation from leasing, third party locator fees and marketing spend. Because if we can do it more efficiently, one, we don't have any payroll allocation for what we're doing. Two, we'll have 10% or less third party participation. And the last part is we can spend less marketing dollars more effectively because we're treating the leads, different efficiencies.
[00:33:24] Speaker B: You share that efficiency with people.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: And then the pitch, sorry, the pitch to the brokerage community that's different, is that we can take a more junior agent who's getting into the business, looking to get their feet under them and put them into a team that is truly one big team. They're not like working for one guy that might drop them an opportunity or not. And they can start in leasing, which most people do, but they don't want to admit it.
[00:33:49] Speaker B: I also just think, I mean, we were talking about it before, like when I started in the real estate world. I start you take this vow of poverty at the beginning. I mean, it's just like, you're just, I don't know, it's like appropriate thing to say.
I left a comfortable job and made no money. You know, no money, zero money. And then like skipped trips and you know, like change your lifestyle. But if, but I think what people don't appreciate about the leasing business enough, and I've talked about, I talked about a little bit with TJ is like, you can, you can like monetize your ramp up and your training, you know, like, and make a good living doing it. And then if you want to continue to do that, there's a great, you know, that's a great career path. And if you want to do other things, like if you kind of have the platform built in, which you do to go from leasing to sales, you can, if that's what you want to do.
[00:34:40] Speaker A: Totally, totally agree. And I think that's where leasing has been maybe treated as like not the redheaded stepchild of the industry. But it's not, it's not where people go and say, that's what I want to do. But it's, it can be a great.
[00:34:52] Speaker B: Businesses are, you know, like the things that people think that are not as glamorous, I generally think are the things that, you know, you can stand out the most.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And we've got killer leasing agents who are as good as any salesperson in any business. But we also have the platform that can get you started and then you build your career around. And I went to, I went to coffee with Thad Wong from AT Properties over. Ever heard of Pandemic? Yeah, yeah. They, you could read up about where they're at in the news. But, but he, he said something that was, he was like, I always wondered why we didn't have the biggest leasing platform around. And that's where I sometimes think that, you know, it's how you build it becomes important because you got so big into sales first that it's tough to think about going back maybe to leasing, but when you're coming from the other way, you have all the momentum in the world.
[00:35:38] Speaker B: That's awesome, man. And it's an incredibly thoughtful answer on both sides. And I want to kind of relate it to is, you know, you've. This is a Chicago podcast, but you've grown in other markets, too.
Do you find it to be easier or harder to stand out in other markets that you work in? What are things about doing business in Chicago that are different than other markets you might not have known before you actually did it? And maybe in particular the differentiation piece.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: Of it, this will tie it back to Chicago, because I think that there's a lot of truth to be said that just by doing what we know how to do here in Chicago, we're eons ahead of some of these other markets. And you show up to those markets and you see what our market was like 10, 15 years ago, where all the inefficiencies that, particularly in this case, our business have solved for, but others, there's multifamily pieces. And the brokerage community is different. It's in a more nascent state than where Chicago is now.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: So do you have to kind of retrain the market? So is that good or bad? Like, you stand out faster? I assume it's both. But then you're also. You have to teach everybody of a whole new way of doing things.
[00:36:56] Speaker A: So. So for the clients who are in Chicago that are asking us to move, it's great because we're at their speed. Right, right. And that's what they're looking for.
[00:37:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:05] Speaker A: But then the people who exist in that marketplace, it is a conversion in the mind space, and that's. That's very challenging for the ownership groups and for the workforce that we're bringing in.
[00:37:16] Speaker B: What are examples of things that we take that we take for granted about the process in operating the buildings or lease UPS or however you want to answer it? What comes to mind in terms of a specific example of what you're describing?
[00:37:28] Speaker A: I think a specific example that made me feel confident when we landed in Denver that we were in the right place for us was Denver has had an oversupply run, unlike us, where we're tight on inventory, and everything here is pretty good. Denver's a bit overbuilt, and it might correct itself here in the next Year or so, but they, in the last 18 months or 24 months max, have had the entrance of third party locator groups. So where I think for years, maybe decades here, apartment people or downtown apartment company or now at Properties and Compass are working to fill these hot sheet units for kind of like the class A core institutional product. Downtown Denver's getting those groups just showing up and starting to play their game. And that's where I got excited because we're a couple years ahead building the next iteration of that product. And I think I was at a conference here for BizNow actually, and somebody said that Chicago's best export these days are its real estate people. And I found that that stuck with me because everywhere we go, a lot of the people very active and doing well in these markets are come from Chicago. And that I thought was pretty cool.
[00:38:40] Speaker B: What I've observed recently is a lot of folks come back and coming back to kind of doing like home turf deals. You know, a few years ago, shortly post Covid, I guess it felt like a lot of the even like, you know, kind of middle market clients I was dealing with were going and exploring, you know, Phoenix or Austin or Florida and Denver and you know, the buzzier Nashville, the buzzier markets, markets, and some of them ended up doing deals there, some of them didn't. But overwhelmingly they've also, you know, some of them have continued to participate in those markets, but they've all come back, come back and realize that, you know, every market kind of has its warts, you know, and there's, you know, we also in Chicago finally have some like headlines in our favor in terms of rent growth and you know, our supply, demand, balance or imbalance, at least in favor of like the demand side, you know, looks favorable when you look at the like national trends.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: So what I, what I think about there is kind of like the hilarious stats that have shown up over the last two years. I think two years ago Chicago was like 30th or less in ranking of Citi on rent growth and it was like 5% rent growth. And then last year it was like third, I think, and it was 5% rent growth.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:57] Speaker A: So it's like the steady Eddie, you know, stands the test of time, easier.
[00:40:02] Speaker B: To plan for that. You know, people talk to me all the time about like, oh, you know, how's the out of, out of state interest, out of market guys, you know, and it's a, it makes for a good story when somebody from across the country buys an apartment building or across the world, whatever and we've done plenty of that business. But what I've told people recently is it's much more impactful for the buyer pool and the overall outcome that everybody's back, that like, we have the attention of the local players again.
It's really been what's driven the demand in the market lately is people, you know, and then they come back with an appreciation and they're like, man, Phoenix, you know, our rents are the other way. And Chicago run growth is awesome as an example. So.
[00:40:40] Speaker A: So is that, is that like a precursor to the market? Like, in your opinion, the people who are here and know this place the best are showing back up, which should then lead to other people bringing their lens back.
[00:40:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I also just think it's like, it's very stable. And I'm not saying stable in like a boring way. I mean, like, people are not buying these deals, right, like with this unrealistic expectation or with like a in and out mentality. Like somebody that buys a building that knows what they're doing here, generally operates it well, they own it long term.
And I think that that's good for the market.
[00:41:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:16] Speaker B: And there's.
[00:41:16] Speaker A: There's the element of the hyperlocal nature of the business matters.
[00:41:21] Speaker B: Massively so. Massively so. You know, a specific, you know, how a specific block plays versus another. I mean, it's like one. And you're also the relationships you have. I think what some of those people that went into other markets didn't fully do, they didn't fully immerse themselves into the community and they, you know, they weren't a known commodity. Whereas here, you know, they have a, a large portfolio and they've got a lot of broker relationships. They see great deal flow. Like when you go to a market where there's a line of 50 people and every deal has 40 bids and it's, you know, you sometimes don't stand out as much. So it's been encouraging for the city. I think it's been good for the marketplace here to just have a lot of attention back. Yeah. And the truth is, we also have had an uptick in out of state folks. I mean, we've had people that are getting wise to the rent growth here versus other markets and say, you know, every market has its challenges and Chicago does have them. We're not being like Pollyannish about it, but, you know, it's a great city, so.
All right. I don't even really remember where we left that off.
[00:42:27] Speaker A: We'll take our winding path wherever it.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: Goes, you know, Bear with, like, I want to talk, I want you to talk a little bit about.
You're doing a lot of large lease up assignments, large and kind of boutique lease up assignments. And I think a lot of people have, they don't fully appreciate what goes into the process creatively and then also just like logistically. So as specific as you could be, what are some things that when you're sitting down with a developer and when you're sitting down with your team, go into the process that somebody from a outside perspective might not appreciate?
[00:43:06] Speaker A: So I think our narrative to the development community has been get us in sooner than you'd anticipate. Right. If you just look at us as like a leasing and marketing vehicle, okay, we could plug in and get, get the units off the shelf to the best of our ability. But where we've found a lot of value add for our clients is one helping them study what they're going to build before it gets built.
Because my saying is always leave us nothing to complain about when we're actually renting these things out. But when it comes down to actually just charting the unit mix out and understanding in what location which prospects are going to be showing up for which unit types, at what scale and for what price, that becomes the generation for the whole project. What amenities do you need to achieve the rents that are complemented to that?
[00:43:54] Speaker B: Is it hard to do it?
Like when you're talking to somebody, you're really like putting yourself two years down the road or whatever. Right. So does that make it challenging where like trends change or whatever and you're like, you know, you're, there's a bias towards, you know, one bedrooms with dens and then people want to, you know. Does that.
[00:44:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:13] Speaker B: Something you think about it is like.
[00:44:15] Speaker A: Definitely, I think so from that standpoint, like it's up to the developer how they're going to trend rent growth. Right. I don't, I'm not going to play that game as much. I'll help them kind of prognosticate on where the market's going. But when it comes down to unit mix and unit type, there is like a fair amount of body of work that's in a submarket before you got there. Right. And if you have enough data, you can understand how those units have traded over time. Traded means just like renter out, renter in. Yeah. And so compiling historical work versus where we know the market has been leaning is really the way to put your best foot forward. And I think the trends are the trends. You never want to be Too trendy when you're building something that's long lasting. Right. So kind of going back to what the core is is critical. So we'll help people with the unit mix and then one of our favorite parts, and I think one of the key parts of what we work on that maybe people don't think about is actually curating the floor plans alongside an architect group. Because I think what we can bring in that space is a lot of thought and information on what a consumer is going to actually put into their unit. What size couch are they going to use? Do they have two nightstands, one night stands? If they have a two bedroom, do they want a king bed, a queen bed? Right. There's all these things.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: What's the comm. I love that. So go deeper into that. What are some things right now that people can design for or build to that are just like your tenant, the consumer just loves. Are there any specific little details of units or layouts that come to mind when you think of what to design for today?
[00:45:46] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. I think that there is the continued work from home component despite. Despite the narrative of people going back to the office. I think everyone wants some sort of carved out space if they're like a little bit more mature in their development in their house. So whether it's adding this one bedroom plus den unit type into the mix or configuring two bedrooms to be widely appealing to both roommate situations and couple situations kind of broadens your renter pool. So one very specific item that we are making sure gets incorporated is in a two bedroom, having one bathroom that has a double bowl vanity. Right. Seems simple, but when a couple shows up and they look at that unit, they're much more high likelihood of closing there if that's the case. So closet closet organizers kind of that component of the bathrooms and then weighing, you know, islands in the kitchen versus dedicated workspace and do you need both or what size unit is it? There's. There's kind of like this. I keep hitting. This is my first podcast.
There's the whole formula that goes together when you're concocting these.
[00:47:00] Speaker B: What's. That's all awesome. What about. Are there any things that come to mind on the other end that are like kind of played out like a trend that was a trend instead of like a lasting characteristic that people gravitate towards? A trend that like.
[00:47:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Something we're seeing that's not.
[00:47:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Like either a unit type that like hasn't paced with the rest for, you know, rent growth or like a Characteristic of the building that was like three years ago, so popular and now is like, you know, it could even be like a common area. Amen. Is there anything that, like, kind of is past its heyday for now?
[00:47:38] Speaker A: I. My. The best thing that I could opine into that because we're kind of in like a more Is more culture of these apartments, more amenities, more features. I think that, like, the massive, sprawling amenities, where you're just trying to maximize the footage that you're allocating to it is kind of out of trend. And really being thoughtful and curated for even less amenity space is a critical piece.
[00:48:04] Speaker B: That's a good answer because I also. A lot of what you're doing is in an urban setting. We're talking about Chicago.
Part of it is I think people want to go to the gym.
[00:48:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:13] Speaker B: I think it's nice to have it. It's nice to have it there. If it's a rainy day or you're on a time crunch, whatever, it's nice to have it there.
But I think it's part of living in the city is you want to be out and about enjoying the amenities in the neighborhood too. So don't try to be everything.
[00:48:28] Speaker A: Be good at a few.
[00:48:29] Speaker B: That's right. Yeah. Like the high touch things I like.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: I always do recommend a gym because I think that when the consumer shows up, you know, they look at that as an offset to their gym membership. But that being said, you have to go all in on the gym.
[00:48:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: You don't want to do it haphazardly. Like you're kind of mentioning with just, you know, two. Two little bikes.
[00:48:49] Speaker B: It's like, sad.
[00:48:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it's sad. It's like, better to not have it then. So understanding that. And then I'll just jog in place.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: In my apartment instead of going down there. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:48:57] Speaker A: I think that. I think that the cosmetic components to the apartments are shifting right now dramatically. And that's like putting more intent, you know, into the light fixtures. You can't just get away with necessarily Home Depot. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you gotta be a little bit more intentional, a little bit more thoughtful.
[00:49:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Gabe. We're filming two of these. Gabe. Horse Stick we just filmed, and he was talking about some of the details. I think that that's. It's wild how similar your opinion is on attention to detail. Really mattering.
[00:49:25] Speaker A: Yeah. And carrying some sort of, like, thought throughout.
[00:49:28] Speaker B: What about, like, what goes into a lease up in terms of something that you coach your team on or that like whoever the point person is on a particular assignment is like, what goes into it from. From that side of things. From like your. Your broker's side that people don't realize. Like, I think some people there's like, it is just so much more than like showing up to an online lead and like opening the door. I mean, you guys are. Your goal is to like drive traffic to these too. It's not like waiting for the phone to ring. It's like some similarities in kind of how we run a marketing process. But how do you drive traffic and convert? I'm hitting it too, and I.
So I think, you know, but you're stronger. You might actually break it.
[00:50:19] Speaker A: I think that that is one thing that I look at as like our core differentiator. I think that our ability to drive more traffic and actually service it because of our broker model is a differentiator for us massively. I think that a lot of times people have these big marketing budgets and they don't want the high noise traffic sources. They want the perfectly curated traffic sources because they've got maybe these 9 to 5 folks that sit on site or are waiting for the phone to ring. To your point, all of our live leads go direct to our assigned agents, cell phones. So they're. They're real time. And I think that, like, high touch.
[00:50:55] Speaker B: Dude, I love that personal touch. Anti AI.
[00:50:57] Speaker A: It's the anti.
[00:50:58] Speaker B: There's like some AI that you're using. You guys are cool.
[00:51:01] Speaker A: We're trying. We're trying not to. We're watching it and paying attention, but we want to be the opposite. I love that we want that really personalized, curated touch. And so that has come all the way through. We were pretty good before about showing paths, but we've recently brought on someone named Erin Higgins. She's running our leasing stack in our business. And her whole thing around these projects is showing path and building a really intentional experience when they get to the building. And she's kind of doubled down on that space for us. So if you get this really high touch first component and it goes all the way through to the very end where that personalized representative of the buildings.
[00:51:38] Speaker B: Handling you, I want to point out. I love. I wasn't expecting you to say all that. I love that a new, cool, growing real estate company with a lot of young people and a great brand is like, it's like old school. It's like, it's like personal, it's tangible, it's real people. It's not trying to like, cut corners in the Experience to save money. It's the opposite. Rings to your cell phone. You're talking with a real person who actually, like, has pride in getting the assignment done.
[00:52:04] Speaker A: And they know the building as well as anybody.
[00:52:06] Speaker B: You could take that and apply it to, like, anything in real estate and say, no shortcuts. Do it the right way.
[00:52:14] Speaker A: Where we're leveraging the AI and the shortcuts is to give our people more time back to do the functions that are higher. Touch. So if you could take any of that administrative burden away from them and make it easier, great.
[00:52:25] Speaker B: Where I'm applying AI is nowhere because I don't understand it and it scares me a little bit. So Steven's helping himself. Full virus media.
All right.
What else do you think? Aside from looping you in?
So getting the. I'll give the point of the question before. Your job is to help developers achieve the best possible outcomes. And you talked a little bit about something that can be done to help your agents do their job more effectively is tying you in earlier to the thought process and the design process. Is there anything else that particular developers do to incorporate your team that makes their project stand out that you wish, like all your clients did?
That was a really rambling. I confess to Shane that I had some beers last night. Second that we're filming. So just put.
[00:53:21] Speaker A: Your energy's still pretty good.
[00:53:23] Speaker B: We're trying.
[00:53:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it goes to that notion of getting us involved earlier and really being a partner into the whole concept. And I think that's one thing we've experienced with Maverick and Adam Friedberg intensely is they want that core group at the table in the beginning. So we're on the OAC meetings and we're meeting the property management group and building kind of like the shared experience into what that's going to feel like. And not that we need to control each element of that, but to be able to weigh in and understand, like, the full scope of what's going on is huge. And not a lot of developers are doing that.
[00:53:58] Speaker B: Dude.
So the way that you work with Adam, I don't want to make. It's a commercial for Adam because I don't want to get too busy.
But he's sitting there with Alon from Canvas, who's an awesome dude, and he does a lot of their retail leasing, and they're sitting there together going through interested tenants for a project. And he calls me. They call me together, whatever. And what do you think the. What do you think the buyer pool would think of these different types of tenants or These different lease structures. I'm like, I don't think anybody's ever called me to ask me that. And I love to hear the question. I don't know if people just don't want to bother somebody until they're like ready to do business. But it's not what we want. We want, like, we want the whole process to go as smoothly as possible.
[00:54:44] Speaker A: And the more we can opine, the more we feel confident about the outcome.
[00:54:48] Speaker B: There's also totally, there's a guy that, he's under the radar, so I'm not going to like, put him out there. Yeah. But I'm selling a building for him right now. And we did a first proposal in this building probably five years ago. And over the five years, we've updated it probably five times. And I know his whole team, I know who to ask for what information it is. Like, you're truly treated like an extension of their team. And I so much prefer that. And the ability and the value of the building went up dramatically because for that last five years, you're kind of road mapping. And then when the time comes, everybody's like, so it's not like sprung up and hey, let's get this on the market next week. That's fine too.
[00:55:26] Speaker A: I like that it all counts, but the outcome.
[00:55:30] Speaker B: I mean, we took this to the market in three days. Thereafter we've got, you know, 99% of price. So it's just, it's nice to like have people that truly treat you as a team.
[00:55:40] Speaker A: But that also is a credit to you too. Right? You're getting in there, you're building the trust and that, that's really critical to being a great partner.
[00:55:46] Speaker B: You can, you know, I talked to Gabe about it and something I want to mention almost every episode is like, you don't start in real estate in year 15 or year 10 or whatever. Like, you know, you started at the bottom. I started doing no deals, nobody knew me. You just, you have to start somewhere and you have to prove that you're going to be in the business for a long time in the right ways. You can't shortcut it.
[00:56:10] Speaker A: You got to work hard. It's all hard work. It's dedication. It's showing up every day, even though not every day is good. And there's, there's the element of putting your best foot forward. You know, several years ago when we decided we wanted to get into the lease up game. Yeah, we took on some projects and didn't make any money on them. And that was intentional. Now, now we have a margin. We understand where we can be in the market, but we had to learn.
[00:56:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:31] Speaker A: So that it's the cost of learning as you go.
[00:56:34] Speaker B: Cost of growing a business. You know, if you're like a young service provider and you think about it like, the way I kind of, like, tricked myself into the beginning of the career is it's like. It's like grad school, you know, it's like you're not in. At least you're not having to pay for it, you know, like. But, you know, you kind of have to go through the first couple of years knowing that you got to earn your stripes. You got to outwork people. Like, you know, and I think some of we were talking about the other day a little workshop. We did it in terror. It's like, if you're young, you have to stand out. You have to do different. You can't. You can't dress the same or work the same hours as somebody who's been doing it for 15 years. Yes. Like, you know, here I am wearing, like, you know, but.
But I get, you know, I guess it's not what differentiates me anymore. And like, if somebody's competing for me in business and comes like, fully button up, you know, with a blazer on, and it's like, you know, that you have to do something different if you're going to, you know, earn business from people who've been doing it for a long time.
[00:57:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I think you try and emulate the people that you really respect, but then do it in your own fashion. And it takes a little bit of time to figure that out.
[00:57:36] Speaker B: Totally. All right, Shane, you've been awesome, and we're going to ask. I'm going to ask you a few questions that. That everybody coming on the show has to answer the hard questions. I still. I said it was a show. Again, it's the pod. As a leader of one of the most active and growing residential platforms in the city, leasing and sales. What does a typical day look like for you? What would you like to do more of in a day? What would you like to do less of in a day?
[00:58:04] Speaker A: I think the typical day is meeting heavy. You got a lot of touch points with various people.
Problem solving. You kind of get to the wake. The most burning problem of the day usually bubbles up somewhere and might disrupt component of what's going on. But try and do coffee, try and do network at least twice a week. Just go out, see who's doing what, meet you for coffee. Meet Gabe. All the guys you talked about But a typical day is for me, the best day. Working with the team as much as possible. But the bigger we get, the harder that gets to be. So you kind of have to start empowering your group to then go and work with all the folks that are in the office.
[00:58:46] Speaker B: But you do that pretty well, I think. I don't know how much you recognize it, but I think even the way that the promotion of Cross street is very much team forward, you're kind of behind the scenes on the social platforms and stuff. Like a lot of your folks are doing like cool stuff out and about, but you're not, you know, grabbing the limelight from them. So, yeah, you gotta trust them. So what would you like to do less of in a day?
[00:59:10] Speaker A: What I like, I would like to do less paperwork and emails.
[00:59:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. That's hard.
[00:59:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel you.
[00:59:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And scheduling. That's like the, the three things. Paperwork.
[00:59:20] Speaker B: You don't have like four assistants or something to do that stuff.
[00:59:22] Speaker A: I'm looking for my first. If anyone who's watching knows anyone who's good.
[00:59:27] Speaker B: All right. For someone getting started in their real estate career, what's a piece of advice you'd give them to set themselves up for success and, or propel them in their careers?
[00:59:36] Speaker A: I would say that the best thing anyone looking to get into the business could do is survey the market, see the players that are out there, find the ones that maybe resonate the most with you and get as close to those people as you can and just try and learn from them. Because I think I've had the fortunate ability to have my uncle and my dad in the business, both who I respect for very different reasons. But being close to them and understanding the business through their lens is a head start for anyone.
[01:00:05] Speaker B: Well, it humanizes it too. You don't psych yourself out. If you meet the people who are active, you realize they're people and the same things make them tick. Exactly.
But, you know, I think that one thing when young people are reaching out and looking to establish those relationships is to, you know, do it in such a way that's like tactical and that, you know, ideally, like, add some value to who you're hoping to get to know. You know, I, I wish, like, I, I know that I was the other guy on the end of that phone call or LinkedIn message or email at one point. And so I try to be very respectful of people like reaching out and looking for advice, but I can't talk to everybody over an hour long cup of coffee to Give them advice. And especially if it's, like, generic. I much prefer if somebody's reaching out and hoping for some advice or getting to know you, that they, like, they're pointed with it. They, like, here's what I'm deciding between. Can you weigh in? Yeah. A client had a summer intern reach out to me the other day, and she reached out and asked, like, a specific, and it was just so much easier to answer. I was so much more inclined to, like, devote some time to give her a thoughtful answer as opposed to, like, what would you do if you're getting started and you were me, I'm like, I don't know you, so I don't know what you want to do. Right. And I don't have an hour.
[01:01:20] Speaker A: So you get to know all the pieces that make it.
[01:01:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't say that to be, like, dismissive. Like, I just. I hope that people, like, apply it, like, tactically.
[01:01:28] Speaker A: No, I think that's. I think that's great advice, because when someone's shooting information to you and you know what to do with it, you don't have to figure out what to do with it is kind of what you're saying.
[01:01:35] Speaker B: I have the answer, but I don't have the answer if it's so generic. And open it right.
[01:01:38] Speaker A: So give a little context. And I think the beauty of the Chicago real estate market is you. Everyone who sat in this seat with you on this podcast, and I think many others will all answer any message that comes to you.
[01:01:50] Speaker B: Ben there been on the other side.
[01:01:52] Speaker A: Of it, and we all want to give back in that.
[01:01:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:01:54] Speaker A: That way. So even if it's getting to the next coffee meeting, that can help them further. I think we all just want to help.
[01:01:59] Speaker B: I've had instances already. You know, I guess I've been doing it for long enough to see it. Like, I've had instances where, like, somebody will reach out and say, hey, 10 years ago, I reached out to you, and you gave me the time of day. And now they have big portfolios, clients. I'm like, well, that was good business move. Yeah.
All right, we're going to wrap it with my favorite question. Why do you love Chicago as a place to work and invest and grow your business and spend every day of your life?
[01:02:26] Speaker A: I think that born and raised here, so a little bit of bias, but definitely have traveled around and gone to a lot of different cities in the. In the world. And when you come back to Chicago, it feels like home to me. I think there's the element of, like, when you ask the question of, like, what's your favorite pizza shop? Or what's your favorite restaurant? Those are hard questions to answer here, because there's so many good ones, and they pop up. And we have a fully built culture of people who want to make a difference. And I think what Chicago has that makes it different is that true Midwestern vibe of people. I think that's, like, understated, but so true when you come here. And I think people recognize that, and so that the confluence of all the good things and resources in the city with the lake and our food scene and restaurants and bars and jobs, right when that all comes together, and then you just have good people in their soul, like, that makes Chicago the place that's the right place to actually be.
[01:03:24] Speaker B: I was gonna say. I don't know whether I'm supposed to say F word or not in my own podcast. Even so, I'm not gonna say it's your podcast. I don't want to, like, get flagged on, you know, not being to clean those. But that was awesome. Awesome. So.
And I. I love the answer to that question. Everybody that, you know, we've had on so far. It's, like, such a deep answer. Like, there's never a superficial, quick way to answer that. You know, like, the people that really know Chicago, there's a lot that makes it awesome. And so you can't just be like, oh, fun sports teams, like, good pizza. You know, like, we have the beach or whatever. You know, it's like, we got a. There's a lot we could fill up.
[01:04:00] Speaker A: We'll do a whole podcast on that.
[01:04:02] Speaker B: Yeah. It's awesome, man. You're great. Thanks for doing it.
[01:04:04] Speaker A: Thanks for having me. Joe, you're awesome. You're the perfect guy to be doing this.
[01:04:09] Speaker B: We're going to keep it going.
[01:04:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:04:11] Speaker B: All right, buddy.
[01:04:12] Speaker A: Thank you.
